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Old 25th August 2011, 05:06 PM   #1
Rob N
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Cool transparent background

Hi

I've inserted a png image and created a transparent background to the image. However, when I now publish as a pdf (X -1a) the background appears as a shadow on the printer's proof instead of being completely transparent.

Is there a way I can avoid this, or if I create the transparency in photo plus will it stop this happening?

Cheers
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Old 26th August 2011, 05:25 AM   #2
Geoff Blanthorn
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Default Re: transparent background

How did you create the transparent background?

The answer to your second paragragh would be "yes", at least as far asmy experience goes.

Geoff
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Old 26th August 2011, 06:47 AM   #3
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Default Re: transparent background

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob n View Post
Is there a way I can avoid this...?
You can crop the background out completely by using PagePlus's Image Cutout Studio with Output Type > Vector-Cropped Bitmap selected. In this case, there will be no pixels of any type, transparent or otherwise, in what used to be the background area, to cause a problem on PDF output.
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Old 26th August 2011, 10:14 AM   #4
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Default Re: transparent background

Thanks Bill

That sounds really helpful - I'll have a play with that!

Cheers, Rob
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Old 26th August 2011, 04:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: transparent background

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob n View Post
Thanks Bill

That sounds really helpful - I'll have a play with that!

Cheers, Rob
You're welcome -- let us know how you get on.

Something to keep in mind is that all background removal techniques work best when there is a clear demarcation, e.g., a change in color or in contrast, between foreground and background. I don't know what your image looks like, but from your initial comment that you had created a transparent background, I surmised that there was the demarcation needed for a clean BG removal. If you have problems, posting your artwork here -- if you are free to do so -- would allow us to make further suggestions.
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Old 31st October 2011, 08:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: transparent background

Not true... I have been adding images and vectors to a PagePlus document and have removed backgrounds using Cut Out Studio and PagePlus but I still get a semi opaque background where it should be fully transparent. The background of the images is "nearly" transparent but not quite. This creates blocks around the images where the real background I have chosen is not fully coming through.

Very irritating as I now have to use a while background instead of the image I wanted.

Thomas
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Old 31st October 2011, 08:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: transparent background

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob n View Post
Hi

I've inserted a png image and created a transparent background to the image. However, when I now publish as a pdf (X -1a) the background appears as a shadow on the printer's proof instead of being completely transparent.

Is there a way I can avoid this, or if I create the transparency in photo plus will it stop this happening?

Cheers
How does it show on your system? What happens if you print it locally?

Art
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Old 31st October 2011, 09:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: transparent background

Technically a vector mask is still flattened--that is, so-called transparent areas in a PDF are page color instead of transparent. Which is what happens with "regular" bitmap images be they PNGs or other bitmaps that support transparency.

Only true vector (and not in all circumstances) have true transparency in a PDF and hence to a RIP process.

Take care, Mike
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Old 1st November 2011, 01:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: transparent background

Quote:
Not true... I have been adding images and vectors to a PagePlus document and have removed backgrounds using Cut Out Studio and PagePlus but I still get a semi opaque background where it should be fully transparent...Thomas
It would be helpful if you would quote the post to which you are responding so we would know for sure, but it sounds like you're responding to mine about there being "no pixels" in the transparent areas of a vector-cropped bitmap. I did a test just to make sure I wasn't blowing smoke and have attached a file here. This was created in PPX5 by importing a rectangular digital photo, drawing a Quick Ellipse from upper left to lower right corner, selecting both, and then Tools > Crop to Shape. I then placed this atop a green-filled Quick Rectangle and published to PDF with Web Compact selected to bring the file size down to postable.

Opening the PDF in Adobe Reader shows no semi-opaque pixels in the cropped-out area and if you open the PDF in PagePlus, you'll find that the image appears in the Resource manager as a JPG (which does not support transparency), so it must still be vector-cropped/masked. Selecting the image and then the Remove Crop tool from the Crop Tool flyout will show that the entire photo is still present and was being cropped by the vector ellipse.

Even though the creation of the vector-cropping outline in the Cutout Studio is more sophisticated than the process I used here, the result is the same in terms of the object created, so I'm not sure why you would be seeing semi-transparent pixels where there should be none. I'm also not sure what MikeW was saying about the whole thing being flattened which, to me would mean, turned into a bitmap with transparency which doesn't seem to be the case, at least certainly not in my test file. (FWIW, I also opened the PDF in a vector graphics program [Canvas] with similar results: a vector-cropped bitmap with no apparent flattening.)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf VectorCropTest.pdf (19.3 KB, 23 views)
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Old 1st November 2011, 03:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: transparent background

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Schuhle View Post
It would be helpful if you would quote the post to which you are responding
Yes, Bill, it would!! Just quoting some of the content is not enough. If you use the "Quote" button, you get a link to the relevant message.

Geoff
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Old 1st November 2011, 03:09 AM   #11
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Default Re: transparent background

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Blanthorn View Post
Yes, Bill, it would!! Just quoting some of the content is not enough. If you use the "Quote" button, you get a link to the relevant message.

Geoff
Really? Did you think the parts I left off would have been helpful in some way? If so, how?
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Old 1st November 2011, 07:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: transparent background

Bill, Geoff, easy boys..

I thought it was enough to post in response to the original post and not have to quote which sub-plot I was referring to. Anyway I would like to reply to Bill's kind response to my post on transparent backgrounds not being quite so transparent as I had hoped or expected.

If I may I'll try to up load an example of the issue and maybe someone has some ideas of a work around. Let me get to the office..

I never remember having had this issue with Photoshop, but can't remember the details. But then I cannot remember what I had for dinner yesterday, which was Monday right?

Thanks
Thomas
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Old 1st November 2011, 07:17 AM   #13
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Default Re: transparent background

Thomas, I've not struck problems with pngs I've inserted that have come with transparent backgrounds. These I've created in DrawPlus or PhotoPlus, mainly DP. They are, of course, 32 bit pngs with the alpha layer containing the transparency.

This I suspect, although I haven't tried it, is quite different to inserting a 24 bit png in PP and then removing the background to create transparency. But I could be wrong.

Eric
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Old 1st November 2011, 07:22 AM   #14
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Default Re: transparent background

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Schuhle View Post
Really? Did you think the parts I left off would have been helpful in some way? If so, how?
Bill,

I think what Geoff was trying to point out is that if you use the icon on the message toolbar the quoted text could have come from anywhere, but if you use the button at the bottom of a post to quote all of the content (whether or not you subsequently edit out the irrelevant bits) you get a link to the post that you've quoted.

Alfred
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Old 1st November 2011, 11:12 AM   #15
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Default Re: transparent background

Fellow PPlusers.. Bill, Geoff,

As mentioned earlier today, please find image attached which shows the transparency problem with PagePlus. This image was created using the PDF export function. In the native PagePlus application you cannot see the error, but in PDF it is certainly there. I have opened the PDF in Adobe and Foxit with the same results.

I made a screen shot using "snippet tool" from windows, opened the PNG file in PhotoPlus and added the grey lines to help highlight the problem. I hope you can see the fact that the blue background has been distorted by the image box and the "box" is clearly visible. If you want I can post the whole PDF, except it is pretty big.

Does anyone have any idea why this happens? PagePlus should be smart enough to inform the user if transparency is not possible. In PagePlus the images were created using CutOut Studio and PhotoPlus. It makes no difference which tool I use. In each case the background show the transparency checkboard as usual.

Very irritating to have such a basic problem which has caused me to not be able to design the files as I want.

Much appreciated.
Thomas
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Last edited by thomas.dahl; 1st November 2011 at 11:13 AM. Reason: wanted to mentioned the pdf viewers used
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Old 1st November 2011, 05:04 PM   #16
Bill Schuhle
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Default Re: transparent background

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfredP View Post
Bill,

I think what Geoff was trying to point out is that if you use the icon on the message toolbar the quoted text could have come from anywhere, but if you use the button at the bottom of a post to quote all of the content (whether or not you subsequently edit out the irrelevant bits) you get a link to the post that you've quoted.

Alfred
Thanks for the clarification, Alfred -- I do see now exactly what Geoff was referring to. I normally do use the "Quote" button (though, to tell the truth, I'd never paid attention to the link button it provided to the quoted post). In this case I had pressed the "Quote" button as usual, but it generated an unusual amount of code in the initial "start quote" area and when previewed did *not* show the normal stuff (in retrospect, including the link), so I edited that code out which is how I got the simple, unlinked quote that Geoff was referring to. Should this happen again, I'll likely backtrack and start the process over to see if proper code is generated on the new attempt(s). I might even pay attention to properly generated code so I could reproduce it manually should the need arise
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Old 1st November 2011, 07:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: transparent background

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Schuhle View Post
Really? Did you think the parts I left off would have been helpful in some way? If so, how?
No, Bill, the parts you left out would not have helped. What is missing is the link to the message you are replying to. It is provided automatically if you use the "Quote" button to reply - note the little blue button after your name above. Without it, others have to scroll through all the earlier posts to find the one you are answering.

Geoff
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Old 1st November 2011, 07:34 PM   #18
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Default Re: transparent background

In the middle of this medley.. has anyone had a chance to look at my problem?
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Old 1st November 2011, 07:45 PM   #19
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Default Re: transparent background

Thomas,

Can you make a temp pub and upload it here with the problem graphic?

Mike
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Old 1st November 2011, 07:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: transparent background

Hi Mike,

The file is 3Mb... I could email it you.. What is a "temp pub"?

Thomas
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