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Old 27th August 2010, 05:25 PM   #1
Jallard
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Default Cut Out Tool?

I purchased PhotoPlus X4 because of the trailer showing how easy it was now to cut out an object in a picture and place it somewhere else: However, the process isn't as simple as it is shown in the trailer.

Whenever I try to surround the object in question the darn thing always creaps into the object that I am trying to trace arround. Can someone please explain to me how this process "Acutually" works? Because it isn't that simple. Thank you.
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Old 27th August 2010, 06:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Hi Jallard,

It essentially depends on the amount of contrast between the part you want to discard and the part you want to keep. If you find that the Discard or Keep Brush Tools are creeping too far into the neighbouring areas you can reduce the 'Grow Tolerance' (or turn it off altogether by clearing the checkbox).

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Old 27th August 2010, 07:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Hello Hi Jallard,
Honestly I never use cutout studio (Page Plus-Drawplus-PhotoPlus) for any of my work. I personally like a cutout with Pen tool+path+convert to selection option.

Using of Pen tool just wonderful for cutout in my opinion.
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Old 27th August 2010, 07:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

From my experience it rarely is simple. If you have a suitable starting image with plenty of contrast then, with a bit of tool adjustment, as Alfred said, it can work OK.

Sometimes increasing the contrast on the original image beforehand can help. Providing you are able to alter the extracted item back to the original colour/contrast afterwards.

Another method which I often find helpful for problem images is to use the Selection Tools instead. Create a duplicate layer of the Background and excessively alter the colour/contrast on that layer then use the normal selection tools to create a selected area. Delete that layer so the selection drops down onto the area for removal and cut/crop/or whatever you prefer to create a suitable extracted image.

You can also reduce the selected area slightly and/or feather the selection to give a more natural result.

But this does take a bit more time and care so I would try the Cut Out Studio with different settings first.
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Old 27th August 2010, 07:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff F View Post
From my experience it rarely is simple. If you have a suitable starting image with plenty of contrast then, with a bit of tool adjustment, as Alfred said, it can work OK.

Sometimes increasing the contrast on the original image beforehand can help. Providing you are able to alter the extracted item back to the original colour/contrast afterwards.

Another method which I often find helpful for problem images is to use the Selection Tools instead. Create a duplicate layer of the Background and excessively alter the colour/contrast on that layer then use the normal selection tools to create a selected area. Delete that layer so the selection drops down onto the area for removal and cut/crop/or whatever you prefer to create a suitable extracted image.

You can also reduce the selected area slightly and/or feather the selection to give a more natural result.

But this does take a bit more time and care so I would try the Cut Out Studio with different settings first.
Like I said, I bought this product on the premise that their advertising was true and legitimate. Then, Serif lied in their video it seems. It isn't that simple as they had claimed. Go figure! Anything to sell a product I guess: lie, cheat and steal! Whatever it takes!?! Are they affiliated with BP by any chance?
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Old 27th August 2010, 07:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jallard View Post
Like I said, I bought this product on the premise that their advertising was true and legitimate. Then, Serif lied in their video it seems. It isn't that simple as they had claimed. Go figure! Anything to sell a product I guess: lie, cheat and steal! Whatever it takes!?! Are they affiliated with BP by any chance?
So the medical student wanted to become a brain surgeon because he saw it done in the medical school's promotional video on the school's web site, but then was amazed that it wasn't as easy as it looked. It shows what can be done, not necessarily what you are capable of doing.

This is called having to learn how to use the tools, and then developing the necessary skills through experience and practice.
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Old 27th August 2010, 08:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

When I see all the works at drawplus.com I can't understand how they draw it in Drawplus? I tried so many times but always fail. My failure does not prove that drawplus is inefficient or what they claim is just a cheat.

Everywork vary.... sometime some graphics does not respond as we want.

I use background removal tool with some photograph & each & every photograph respond differently as the light & shade of the background is different.

If I don't get a particular desire result with my purchased product, that does not prove that every thing is "lie, cheat and steal". May be you have some problem with some option but reality is Php is good, every software need improvement....... you can accept it as a mature one or you can runaway as a child. But this is reality & it is not so bad.
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Old 27th August 2010, 08:26 PM   #8
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jallard View Post
Like I said, I bought this product on the premise that their advertising was true and legitimate. Then, Serif lied in their video it seems. It isn't that simple as they had claimed. Go figure! Anything to sell a product I guess: lie, cheat and steal! Whatever it takes!?! Are they affiliated with BP by any chance?
Alfred has already told you how to proceed. If all else fails you can use the polygon selection tool to tidy up the selection. Holding Shift allows you to add to the selection, and holding Alt allows you to subtract from it. Zoom in as necessary.

How can Serif have lied in the video. They shew the result that was achieved with the image they were using. The accuracy is dependent on the contrast in the picture and the skill of the operator. Skill comes with practice.

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Old 27th August 2010, 08:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

And, Jallard, the sales person promised me that PhP X14 was as good as CS5. Somehow, I think Adobe would disagree with that.

But I have used various versions of Photo Plus since version 8 and to be honest, I can't suggest anything better for the price.

All I can really advise is to try to learn some of the various options to get around your problem, as the other posters have suggested.

ps. The Cut Out Studio won't work with large Tiff files either; I've already tried that.
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Old 27th August 2010, 08:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff F View Post
And, Jallard, the sales person promised me that PhP X14 was as good as CS5. Somehow, I think Adobe would disagree with that.
Adobe must agree that "PHP X14 will be as good as CS 5" because presently we are on PHP X4

I accept PHP as PHP not as Adobe's
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Old 27th August 2010, 08:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff F View Post
And, Jallard, the sales person promised me that PhP X14 was as good as CS5. Somehow, I think Adobe would disagree with that.

But I have used various versions of Photo Plus since version 8 and to be honest, I can't suggest anything better for the price.

All I can really advise is to try to learn some of the various options to get around your problem, as the other posters have suggested.

ps. The Cut Out Studio won't work with large Tiff files either; I've already tried that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
So the medical student wanted to become a brain surgeon because he saw it done in the medical school's promotional video on the school's web site, but then was amazed that it wasn't as easy as it looked. It shows what can be done, not necessarily what you are capable of doing.

This is called having to learn how to use the tools, and then developing the necessary skills through experience and practice.
Quote:
From my experience it rarely is simple. If you have a suitable starting image with plenty of contrast then, with a bit of tool adjustment, as Alfred said, it can work OK.

Sometimes increasing the contrast on the original image beforehand can help. Providing you are able to alter the extracted item back to the original colour/contrast afterwards.

Another method which I often find helpful for problem images is to use the Selection Tools instead. Create a duplicate layer of the Background and excessively alter the colour/contrast on that layer then use the normal selection tools to create a selected area. Delete that layer so the selection drops down onto the area for removal and cut/crop/or whatever you prefer to create a suitable extracted image.

You can also reduce the selected area slightly and/or feather the selection to give a more natural result.

But this does take a bit more time and care so I would try the Cut Out Studio with different settings first.
I appreciate all your comments. I really do. Even when I talked with the salesperson on the phone he said it was that easy as well.

With the technology today, I see no reason why it can't be that simple?!?

I am trying to cut out the female character from a screenshot, to put her in another picture.

I guess truth in adverstising is just a misnomer these days. Thank you.
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Old 27th August 2010, 08:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

If it works the same as the cutout studio in DrawPlus I find the easiest way to cut out a difficult area is to magnify a lot and use a very small brush with zero tolerance. To remove the intruding bits switch to the red brush to get rid of them. Go back and forth between the red and green brushes until you get the desired boundary. It is easy to do but not always fast.
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Old 27th August 2010, 10:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

"With the technology today, I see no reason why it can't be that simple?!? "

What you mean you expect a box with no eyes, born 30 years ago to be comparable to a human?
4000 years of hardcore evolution allows us to seperate the female from a screenshot in less than a blink of an eye...

...but seriously thou the pen too is the quickest way, it may take you 3-4 minutes but it will get the job done
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Old 28th August 2010, 04:07 AM   #14
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Cut-out studio really is that easy to use, but it does depend very much on the contrast in the image. Some images can be difficult, but 2-5 minutes is not an unreasonable estimate of how long it takes on average. Some difficult images may take half an hour, but it is rarely that hard. Then it also depends on how demanding you are. If you're cutting out images for a sales catalogue, do they really need to be perfect?
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Old 28th August 2010, 04:48 AM   #15
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhikkhu Pesala View Post
Cut-out studio really is that easy to use, but it does depend very much on the contrast in the image. Some images can be difficult, but 2-5 minutes is not an unreasonable estimate of how long it takes on average. Some difficult images may take half an hour, but it is rarely that hard. Then it also depends on how demanding you are. If you're cutting out images for a sales catalogue, do they really need to be perfect?
No, but it would be nice.
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Old 28th August 2010, 05:28 AM   #16
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

As already noted, perfection takes time. There is such a thing as being too fastidious.
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Old 28th August 2010, 01:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

I don't have PhP X4 at this point, but I would certainly not have expected all extractions to be easy. I've read through tutorials in PS and it is certainly not easy with Adobe's software either.

I do have a question though. One of the really difficult extractions is of hair that is blowing in the wind. That creates a situation where pixels of hair and pixels of background are intermingled. And there are also transition pixels that are neither the color of hair NOR the color of background, but somewhere in-between. Any technique that does not show the background pixels peeking through is going to look cut out if the background is altered significantly.

So, two questions: Does the cutout studio in X4 make this easier? And do you need to use techniques that are different than the suggestions listed in the above posts? I would think anything done with a pen could not handle this situation well?

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Old 28th August 2010, 02:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Hey Bill

Normall in such intances you can do a 2 stages pen extraction. the simple basic part and the "hair" type part, all i normally to is cut close to the hair or just inside it then apply a 1-2pix feather, sometimes the straight up anti-alisaing will smooth it out so it does look jagged.
The only time this wouldn;t work well is if you are placing black straight onto white.
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Old 28th August 2010, 03:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill T View Post
IOne of the really difficult extractions is of hair that is blowing in the wind. That creates a situation where pixels of hair and pixels of background are intermingled. And there are also transition pixels that are neither the color of hair NOR the color of background, but somewhere in-between. Any technique that does not show the background pixels peeking through is going to look cut out if the background is altered significantly.
If the tools in PhotoPlus X4 don't produce the results you want or need, take a look at Vertus Fluid Mask.

Serif sells... or sold... a limited version at a good price. IIRC the limits were 10 MP image size and I don't recall the file size.
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Old 28th August 2010, 04:55 PM   #20
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Default Re: Cut Out Tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhikkhu Pesala View Post
As already noted, perfection takes time. There is such a thing as being too fastidious.
I don't think that I am all that fastidious, as you say: However, I like things simple and straightforward. The product doesn't not perform as advertised --albeit someone's level of expertise in performing said function.
To me, that is false advertising! But, then, we live in an age where everything goes --honesty and integrity in business.
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