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Old 11th March 2008, 10:18 PM   #1
Larry Thompson
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Lightbulb WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

I'm planning to purchase either WebPlus X2 or Netobjects Fusion 10. Can you provide any comparative feedback on the ease-of-use, features, and which, in your opinion, is the more advanced of the two products. I am a contented user of PagePlus X2 and MoviePlus 5 and like the continuity of using an interface with which I'm familiar. However, after reviewing many WebPlus created web sites I have the impression that perhaps this software is geared more towards beginners than to intermediate and advanced users.

Your views are very much appreciated.

Thanks!
 
Old 11th March 2008, 10:36 PM   #2
Jim B.
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Lightbulb Re:*WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

I've used NoF since version 3. Or maybe 4. ?

I've used WP since version 1 (I think). Before that, whichever version of PagePlus that first had web capabilities. WebPlus is better than PagePlus for sites.

NoF and WebPlus each has its own strengths and weaknesses. I prefer some features in NoF and some in WP. I tend to use NoF for more complex sites, and WP for quicker (faster) building.

NoF has a companion program called nPower that your web site client can purchase, then you can use NoF to pick and choose what parts of the NoF site that the client can alter with their nPower.

Jim B. :> )

Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.
 
Old 11th March 2008, 10:56 PM   #3
Mike Koewler
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

Larry,

Welcome to the Serif forum.
Quote:
after reviewing many WebPlus created web sites I have the impression that perhaps this software is geared more towards beginners than to intermediate and advanced users.
Way before I got back into web design, I published a newspaper (still do). In the publishing field, almost everyone uses either Quark or InDesign. The software is better know, not to mention way more expensive. In one NG, some people wanted to deride the use of a Serif product because it was: cheap, not mainstream, unknown, not sophisticated, was bug ridden (PP4 was a dog!), etc. Yet I read post after post about problems some Quark and ID users were having getting their files output correctly. Yet, PP did an impeccable job.

It's not the tool the person is using, it's the person using the tool.

I don't know what kind of support NoF offers and I have not used the program at all. If you are considering which to purchase, from a simply logical standpoint, I would buy WP first. It is far less expensive and you can use it for 30 days to see if it meets your needs and desire. If not, send it back for a full refund and buy NoF (and hope it is better!).

TBO, the only significant problem I found with WP10 was if my site grew to over 70-80 pages, it started to take too long to open and save. But I use an easy workaround for that so it has not been a problem. My main site has over 400 pages, all but a few (which are pdf files) that have been done in WP.

JMO, YMMV!

Mike
 
Old 11th March 2008, 10:58 PM   #4
Larry Thompson
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Lightbulb Re:*WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

Thanks, Jim, that's very helpful.

What features in NOF, besides the nPower add-in, make it more suitable for building complex sites, and what is your definiftion of a complex site?
 
Old 11th March 2008, 11:03 PM   #5
Larry Thompson
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

Mike,

That's good food for thought--thanks!

Larry
 
Old 11th March 2008, 11:26 PM   #6
Jim W
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

I use both WP and NOF10 and WP is by far and away the easier programme to use.
NOF has this annoying habit of overlapping text everytime you change something and refresh a template or change a a site style. However, its up to its third patch which has eliminated some of the problems. Checkout the NOF user groups at http://www.netobjects.com/html/fusion_10.html or, download the trial version at the same address. I found the form creation tool to be hit and miss and the server side of things didn't work very well.
WPX2 is fairly recent and there's bugs emerging as well but from what I've read nothing that would stop you in your tracks.
The WP templates are better as well but NOF has a library of paid for templates and from time to time contacts you to give you a free template or two if you've registered with different email addresses.
I haven't used NOF for several months so I guess that just about sums it up.
The main reason I bought it was for others to update content which they do with nPower application and following the update that now works well.

Why WPX2 and not NOF10? The stuff I've learned by being nearly a passive forum user is worth the admission price in itself. Serif isn't the biggest software house in the world but this forum is supported better than most I visit. That's gotta be good ???
 
Old 12th March 2008, 01:52 AM   #7
Ken
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

As Jim B stated, NOF is more suited to complex sites (it can simply handle them better in my opinion) but it isn't anywhere near as user friendly as Webplus.

NOF is better suited if you have a decent knowledge of html and a bit of css/javascript.
Problems with overlapping text boxes as mentioned don't happen if 'fixed layouts' are avoided and 'dynamic layouts' are used, and it's forgiving in its own way with red warning tags if something overlaps where it shouldn't, plus automatic backups etc.

It's an immensely capable program when used by someone familiar with it, but by God it is nothing like as forgiving as Webplus if you can't play by its rules!! Version 10 simply isn't worth the money, in my opinion - look for a magazine cover disk with version 9 for free. 9 does all the important stuff just the same, without the frills that made 10 buggy.

Webplus may be aimed at the beginner/small business market, but it is still very capable if the user has just a little bit of 'web savvy' - Dreamweaver, NetObjects, Expression et all can produce horrible buggy websites in the wrong hands. It's really all down to the user - Webplus can produce sites to match the best of them, it just depends on the user
 
Old 12th March 2008, 08:42 AM   #8
Jim W
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

Ken

On:12/03/2008 00:52:30 - Ken wrote:
Quote:
Problems with overlapping text boxes as mentioned don't happen if 'fixed layouts' are avoided and 'dynamic layouts' are used, and it's forgiving in its own way with red warning tags if something overlaps where it shouldn't, plus automatic backups etc.
You're being very forgiven there. Yes, there are red tags but the whole page is out of line there in! It's a very annoying bug if you've spent a couple of hours typing text and getting everything in place. You're right it's when fixed layouts are used but the average user will not know how to sort it out? Also, why should it do that when they supply fixed layout templates?

I'm not knocking NOF10 but there are some quirks they still haven't fixed.
I still can't get the form handler to work properly.
I agree get a hold of the version 9 which I still can't believe they give away for free as that does virtually everything 10 does.

Jim
 
Old 12th March 2008, 09:42 AM   #9
Ken
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

I've not had any problems with overlapping text boxes, but then again I've never used their templates - I start every page from scratch, beginning with text size etc in Styles before I add anything to a page.
Quote:
but there are some quirks they still haven't fixed.
I had to smile there - that's the understatement of the year I'm just so long in the tooth I've learnt how to steer around them.

Put it this way, comparing Fusion and Webplus on price alone, Serif is seriously shortchanging customers by not supplying anywhere near enough bugs per buck
 
Old 12th March 2008, 05:17 PM   #10
Jim W
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

On:12/03/2008 08:42:10 - Ken wrote:
Quote:
I had to smile there - that's the understatement of the year I'm just so long in the tooth I've learnt how to steer around them.
You're right I'm being a bit too forgiving there as well

In my case the best NOF was 7.5 as that just seemed to work out of the tin. Okay, by todays standards it looks ancient but I developed about 6 or 7 paid for sites, for small businesses who were desperate at the time to get on the web. I made a small fortune as they thought I was a web guru ROTFL

One such company has gone on to develop a site costing about 5000 as they get a lot of business from the internet. I missed a trick

Jim
 
Old 12th March 2008, 11:56 PM   #11
Ken
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

I still have 7.5 installed for a couple of sites which wouldn't upgrade properly to 9 or 10. As you say, it's a very stable version of NetObjects which is still very capable.
For the technically minded, it uses table based webpages with css formatting in external stylesheets, whereas Webplus uses css-embedded pages.
And now of course, it's free - their NetObjects Essentials is basically just version 7.5 with a new front page full of enticements to upgrade. An excellent freebie -
http://www.netobjects.com/html/essentials.html
Maybe they learned from Serif.....
 
Old 13th March 2008, 12:51 AM   #12
'Awful Punster'
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

On:12/03/2008 22:56:03 - Ken wrote:
Quote:
NetObjects Essentials is basically just version 7.5 with a new front page full of enticements to upgrade. An excellent freebie
That's interesting, Ken their Upgrade Essentials http://www.netobjects.com/html/essentials_upgrade.html page gives the impression that it's a cut-down version of NOF8 (in the same way as Serif's PPSE is a cut-down version of PP9) rather than being more or less the same as NOF7.5. I'm also curious about your reference to "sites which wouldn't upgrade properly to 9 or 10" given that (as you pointed out in another post to this thread) NOF9 is also legitimately available for free if you know where to look. What kind of problems did you have with those sites?

Alfred

Click here to visit my Serif-related pages http://serif.awfulpunster.info/' sty...et='_blank
 
Old 13th March 2008, 11:38 AM   #13
Bhikkhu Pesala
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

I am a happy user of NetObjects Fusion Essentials. It looks almost identical to version 7, and is in fact the full version 7.5. I tried to find out precisely what had changed since version 7, but got an unhelpful reply.
Quote:
"NetObjects Fusion Essentials is a newer version than NetObjects Fusion 7. Fusion Essential has some new feature and may include unspecified updates, enhancements, and bug fixes.
For large sites, NOF is ideal. My main website is 270 pages — with many long, text intensive pages http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Mahasi/...biomahasi.html like this, but not a whole lot of graphics apart from a simple photo gallery http://www.aimwell.org/Photos/photos.html. The site loads in less than 10 seconds, and it takes just 1 second to save.

My brief review http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pesala/...etobjects.html of NOF Essentials.
 
Old 13th March 2008, 01:10 PM   #14
Jim W
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

Hi ken

Trimdon. I know it well. used to go there when I was a lad in my Dad's old banger. Then In the insurance industry I used to manage the Durham and Sunderland Area for Pearl Assurance.
I live in Whitley Bay that once great seaside resort. Alas no more!
I seem to remember a Trimdon Woods or Dene but that might be my memory playing tricks?

Jim
 
Old 13th March 2008, 01:35 PM   #15
Ken
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

Small world
There are a few wooded areas, but you're maybe thinking of Castle Eden Dene as well, nearby - a proper wood!
Lots of Trimdon is unchanged, apart from new housing developments shoehorned into what seems like every available corner. That's where the website idea came from, to get as many photos online before the old place changed for good, then it sort of gained a life of its own. I've been promising a complete update for about two years now, but never quite found the time yet......
 
Old 13th March 2008, 01:40 PM   #16
Ken
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

Hi Alfred,

Essentials is actually 7.5 with update 5020 (7.50.000.5020) and apart from the start page is identical throughout to the last 5016 update to 7.5.

I had two sites using a fluid layout to stretch to browser width which became totally trashed if opened or imported into later versions - looking at the html code, an extra table was being added for some reason which bungled all the page tables from the original. One has now bit the dust, but the other one is still there at www.trimdon.com
All other sites upgraded without problems - export to template/new site from template.

The same method of building stretch-to-browser pages works ok from scratch in the later versions, just those particular sites just wouldn't import! Rather than give myself lots of extra work, I just left 7.5 installed - now 'Essentials' as when I downloaded and tried it for myself (expecting something different...) it replaced my original installation of 7.5 without asking
 
Old 13th March 2008, 02:38 PM   #17
Jim W
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

Ken

On:13/03/2008 12:35:05 - Ken wrote:
Quote:
but you're maybe thinking of Castle Eden Dene
I remember that place as well as there is, or was a Castle Eden Brewery.
Very nice beer that the local clubs sold.
I don't know if that's stopped brewing as you don't see their beer up here anymore?

Ahh, a quick check of the web and it's been closed.

On:13/03/2008 12:35:05 - Ken wrote:
Quote:
Now closed and production moved to the Lion Brewery at Hartlepool. It is hoped that Castle Eden Brands and Camerons brands will continue but some rationalisation is bound to happen
I had a client in the village and its a place that time forgot.

Good memories

Jim
 
Old 13th March 2008, 04:36 PM   #18
Larry Thompson
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

Hi Bhikkhu,

Thanks for your input. At what point, in your opinion, does NOF become the tool of choice over WPX2? Can WPX2 adequately handle web sites that are image or multimedia intensive and/or contain a hundred plus pages?

My sincere thanks go out to all who have posted here. I'm finding the information very helpful from this thread as well as from other threads on this product.

Larry
 
Old 13th March 2008, 08:06 PM   #19
'Awful Punster'
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

On:13/03/2008 12:40:07 - Ken wrote:
Quote:
'Essentials'...replaced my original installation of 7.5 without asking
When I installed NOF Essentials earlier today, I noticed a bit of a clue in the serial number: it began with "NFW-750".

Alfred
 
Old 14th March 2008, 07:25 AM   #20
zuri
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Lightbulb Re: WebPlus X2 & NetObjects Fusion 10

Hi Mike,
I am very new to the forum. Your post always seem to very helpful.
I have been using WP8-WPX2.
You mention that your site was very large. If possible I would like to visit your site to see what the possibilites are using the serif products. I tried to use NoF, but WP9,10 got the job done quick.

Thanks in advance,

zuri
 
 

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