Moving objects

In older versions of PP, when one held down Alt and clicked a text item it would allow you to move the item rather than turning into an I beam for text entry. Is there really no way to move a text block other than actually grabbing the surrounding box in X2?

Thanks to anyone who can help.

Phil

Not working on my installation either. Bummer.

I personally think Serif has had it wrong on this one all along. I would much prefer to have **moving** a text block be the default function of a single click (and drag) on the contents of the block with a double-click required to activate the editing/text entry function. I would certainly like to see that as a user-definable option if not the default.

Bill Schuhle

On:10/04/2007 16:53:34 - Bill Schuhle wrote:

Not working on my installation either.

What is not working? Moving a text object or frame with the transform tab is simple. Just insert the cursor in the X or Y field and scroll with the cursor keys to move it.

You can use the Transform Tab. That changes the X,Y co-ordinates of the Text Frame or Artistic Text object.

Another easy way is to press Escape to select the Text Frrame or Artistic Text object, then move it with the Cursor Arrow keys directly.

Hold down shift with the frame or object selected to resize it with the cursor keys.

That's all very well for fine movement but I'm talking about grabbing and dragging items about.

Abdolutely. I think that is clearly the better way for this to work. How CDR does it and it's da biz!! Maybe it's because Serif see PP as a page layout prog and therefore think people are more likely to be wanting to type or something? I dunno. It's not as terrible as having Ctrl+3 being zoom to all instead of Ctrl+0 like every other program in the world but it is pretty annoying.

Phil

Bill,

I think you are confusing a DTP (PP) with a drawing program. It would be absolutely unacceptable to have to double click in a frame to be able to insert/edit text. There are already ample ways to move frames.

Geoff

I disagree. I think it would be much more sensible to do it that way. I guess we differ!
Phil

On:4/10/2007 6:35:22 PM - Geoff Blanthorn wrote:

I think you are confusing a DTP (PP) with a drawing program. It would be absolutely unacceptable to have to double click in a frame to be able to insert/edit text. There are already ample ways to move frames.

Geoff,

All I know is that 90% of the time, when I click on a text block -- whether it be in my most-used layout app (Freehand) or my second-most-used layout app (PagePlus) -- it's because I want to re-position it, not edit the text it contains. In Freehand -- which follows what I consider to be the established conventions of graphic computer interfaces, i.e., one click selects (icon or object) for movement, double-click opens or activates for editing -- I can single-click and drag to my heart's content. In PagePlus, I am always required to click twice to select a text block for movement -- either once in the text then once on the (narrow target of) the border OR once in the text then once again in the text with the ALT key held down (in 11 and prior anyway). So I do twice as much clicking for the vast majority of my layout movements in PP as I do in FH. Granted, it's not a show-stopper, but I personally find it an annoyance and always have.

There may be plenty of ways to move frames, but, unfortunately, simply clicking and dragging is not one of them. An option to have the program work either way depending on the user's preference would be a welcome addition in my book.

Bill Schuhle

Bill,

As I said, you are confusing a DTP program with a drawing program. Freehand is a drawing program, I believe. DP works that way. DP is a drawing program.

In PP double clicking in text selects the word. That's how it works in most text editing programs, and that is what is expected and desirable in PP.

Geoff

Phil,

Coral Draw is not a DTP program. It is comparable to DP, and DP works the way you prefer.

Geoff

I think the point is not really which is the better or the worse way of doing something.

The point is surely that PPx2 does it differently from PP11 and every other version of PP.

Unless there is a good and overwhelming reason for a change, there is no good reason for randomly changing user interface features between versions. It is irritating and shows a lack of concern for users.

The user interface of PP is already inconsistent enough with other Windows programs, without introducing random changes within itself at every version.

The reason for the difference is column-selections. In PPX2 if you ALT-drag over a frame it highlights a rectangle, and all the text underneath that rectangle is selected. This is a new feature PP11 did not have. We've tried to make PPX2 better at working with text, and multiple text selections and column selections are part of this.

You can still use ALT-click to cycle between overlapping objects. You can also drag frames by selecting their border. Personally I prefer that to using the ALT key.

On:4/11/2007 7:11:43 AM - Geoff Blanthorn wrote:

As I said, you are confusing a DTP program with a drawing program. Freehand is a drawing program, I believe. DP works that way. DP is a drawing program. In PP double clicking in text selects the word. That's how it works in most text editing programs, and that is what is expected and desirable in PP.

Geoff,

Yes, technically Freehand **is** a drawing program, though, unlike DrawPlus, its text handling capabilities rival, in many ways, those of a DTP program and it has, therfore, been my layout app of choice for over a decade now. In FH you can either use the Text tool to directly edit existing text or double-click with the arrow tool to switch a text block into edit mode (and switch between the two tools by holding the appropriate modifier key).

The only two DTP programs, aside from PP, that I'm familiar with -- PageMaker and Quark XPress -- both have separate tools for moving text blocks and for editing their contents. PP, on the other hand, does both with the same (arrow) tool and this has its advantages, though, as I've said, I'd like to see some options available as to how, exactly, that works.

Bill Schuhle

Dave,

In looking at the PPX2 Help files on text editing, I see lots of nifty options there, some of which I also notice were present in PP11 (but of which I was unaware) and some of which are new. Cool

What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is under what circumstances you would want to use the ALT-select rectangle. Could you give some examples?

Thanks,

Bill Schuhle

This feature has been available in WordPerfect since WP5.1 for DOS.

The only practical use that I can think of is for selecting tabular data typeset in monospaced fonts.

I think the shortcut could be changed to Control + Drag, allowing Alt + Drag to revert to its former use. Multiple selection are made with Control + Double-Click, etc., so this may be possible.

I agree — as far as possible — shortcuts should not be changed from version to version, but when new features are added this is not always possible. Sometimes errors get introduced as happend with Control + Alter + V for insert em-dash and paste in place.

On:11/04/2007 11:20:24 - Dave H @ Serif wrote:

You can also drag frames by selecting their border. Personally I prefer that to using the ALT key.

For what it's worth, I prefer that too. (To be honest, I wasn't aware that you could do it with the Alt key in earlier versions.) I generally avoid the problem of hitting the "narrow target" to which Bill refers, by the simple expedient of clicking inside the text frame and then pressing the Esc key.

Alfred

Click here for my 'Clickable forum links' page http://serif.awfulpunster.info/ez_li...et='_blank

On:4/11/2007 12:38:58 PM - 'Awful Punster' wrote:

I generally avoid the problem of hitting the "narrow target" to which Bill refers, by the simple expedient of clicking inside the text frame and then pressing the Esc key.

Alfred,

Thanks for the tip -- that's great! Never knew about that option

Bill Schuhle

Dave

Thanks for this explanation. This does seem to be a good reason for the change. One of my pet hates is user interface features that change between versions and maybe I came down a bit hard on PP.

If only PP followed common conventions for editing more closely then I think it would move from being a great program to being a must-have.

I wonder how many people have tried the SE version only to see all their work disappear when they press ctrl-delete (intending to delete the current word of course) uninstall the package in disgust?

I would be quite happy to pay for another of those incremental upgrades (like 8 followed closely by 8 PDF) which adds only user interface features, but nothing much else to PP.

User definable menus, keyboards and toolbars would be top of my list here.

Steve

The font doesn't have to be monospaced, if it is laid out with tabs and tabstops. MSWord also has the feature (with the same UI). It's not usual in advanced text editors. You can use it, for example, to swap columns around with cut&paste.

Control+Drag is used for multi-range text selections. If you drag over some text, then hold down control and drag over different text, both get selected. Control+double-click also works, of course, but you don't need the double-click. Control works as a modifier on all mouse text selection actions.