I used to like coming here. I still do, in the most part, but the recent vitriolic stream verbage from folk with strongly held opinions is proving a serious barrier.
So the new software has problems on your machine? Why not ask if anyone has the same before launching into accusations and asterisked obsenities? There is no way the code is as bad as you think. Your platform could be the problem. Let the forum help you and then you come back to help others.
If you do not like the program send it back, get the refund and save up for the next more expensive variant avaialable from Adobe or whoever.
Please can we get back to the friendly forum we used to have? It feels like the season of badwill.
There is no place in this forum for any kind of abuse whether indicated by asterix or otherwise.
However, the frustrations experienced when major difficulties are encountered, need to be expressed.
Had I known about this forum when I was on the point of being dismissed from my job then things might have panned out better or more quickly.
In any event, I was left, on my own, with page after page of gobbledegook (see my previous post) and had I been able to get my hands on a Serif employee....................well I didn't so alls well that ends well.
Many of the posts about Serif Products are really quite trivial (no disrespect intended) and relatively easily solved thanks to the expertise of members of the Forum and for the input of Serif people but I and the other poster (who used an asterix or two)were confronted by major, career threatening and/or financial problems then this is an entirely different matter.
I didn't use an asterix in my post and have no intention of so doing. However, had I had access to this Forum at the time of my difficulties then I would not have been so polite as to use asterix......the full monty would have been forthcoming.
In any event, I'm sure that this Forum was not set up solely for the lionsation of Serif Products and its nice to know that criticsm is taken on board by Serif and, largely, acted upon.
This in no way excuses bad behaviour, bad language or churlishness. But, when confronted by an unhelpful, amorphous organisation, whether actual or perceived, who are unable to help, and perhaps, who do not understand the intrinsic importance of their product to particular individuals, then over reaction is inevitable.
This is a good Forum.
I, like many others have learned so much from it.
Its 99% well mannered, instructive and constructive and I'm sure that one or two rants (like this one?) and a bit of unhelpful name calling are not going to significantly impact on the majority of subscribers.
I went throught a thought process a few days ago thinking the forum was wondering away from its happy past, so, since I had more time than sense that day I decided that to do an objective test I would do a 90 day search to see which posters had included a smiley :-) in their posts. The results below show how many posts were made in that period that included a smiley, and by whom. It may not be truly scientific and I must say its probably not fair to Mark Szorady who usually manages a very great number in each individual post.
Dave P 71
Martin Taylor 23
'Awful Punster' 22
Mark Szorady 10
G Blanthorn 10
Steven Bradley 9
Mike Brett 8
Mike Keller 7
Graeme Davidson 4
Kurt Johnston 3
Speed Demon 3
Sussex Speed Demon 2
Jim B. 2
Bob Gambles 2
Dale Cook 2
Richard A. 1
Patrick Connor 1
Dave D-W 1
Paul B 1
Matt Dowling 1
Steve Palmer 1
Steve Wehner 1
Ron Stephens 1
I probably fit the "intolerant" label and I'm not afraid to admit it. But there are only specific types of posts that cause me to reply in less than a friendly manner. NONE of them include, or have ever included asking for help or how to do something.
From another thread:
>> Serif products are great, but definitely NOT professional. Professional means that you can rely on the product to produce results consistently and be useful in a business environment.
The only phrase of this post that is correct is the first one - Serif products are great. Since PP3, the first Serif product I used, the ONLY version (not including Home/Office that hardly anyone bought or kept) that was IMO not professional was PP4. Oh, I could output work to be professionally printed, but it was a pain to work with. Even PP7, which I also skipped, produced professional work, it just had too many features that I disliked and too many other features I had grown accustomed to that were missing. To suggest, hint, insinute or bluntly state PP is not professional shows a complete lack of knowledge on the part of the OP. To say so in a forum where potential buyers may lurk is not something that can go without a response.
I thought once I had a good reason to rant at Serif - I had a couple of large, full color ads in the paper. Several letters in the store's name (in big, bold print) and some other letters in the details of the offer, did not print. The pdf (done with PP8PDF) looked great on screen. It was embarrasing and not conducive to making money. I sent Serif the file, and they swore it was correct. I sent the file to the company who provided a thrid-party app to the printer (Quite Imposing). Aandi swore his software worked as designed. Yet the proof was in the printing that something was amiss. As it turned out, the problem was that PP pdf file, when run through a RIP using Quite Imposing 1.5 over Acrobat 4 caused the results. No way could Serif have known this, except when a user runs across this exact set of coincidences. And this is not a rare thing. Check some of the Quark and ID NGs, you'll find bunches of examples where a user experiences output completely different from what should be expected but in the end, the problem usually comes down to the users setup. Yet only an idiot or fool would be stupid enough to post that Quark or Indy is unprofessional or will cost the user his job.
Oh, and since you couldn't find any smilies in my posts (there were not many, just two):
Your post is, of course, spot on. Some of the statements made about the software, especially in recent times are deplorable. Some of the people who post under false names and bogus addresses are people with grudges of course. They are also spineless, gutless and clueless.
I know from from personal contact that Colin is real and sensible too by the way! We need more of his type and less of those bogus ones around here
This forum is a great place! Frankly, I don't know what thread is being cited as having some less than positive posts about Serif. I guess because I've been busy creating four features for DBR Media (shameless plug) using PagePlus and PhotoPlus.
You, I and Serif products have traveled a long road together. We've been on every one of the forums that Serif has had starting with CS, what, some twelve year or more. We've seen people come and go and seen people attack Serif, some without ever having used that particular product. Sometime they go away, sometime they stay and realize that Serif products are a cut above the rest, but most always it happened with dignity. Occasionally things got out of hand,but it didn't take much to turn things around.
As you know, I haven't posted here much lately. One reason, since retiring (Hah!), I don't use PP as much as I used to, still do, but not three or four hours a day as before. There are others here that give great advice and help, so I really don't have to participate in that respect, but we've made many friends here and I want to stay in touch and see what's going on. Yeah, I'd help if need be, but don't seem to be needed.
One trend that I see here that is disturbing is the number of posts by people who are ashamed of who they are. They post caustic and snide comments under some fales name and address. These are not the type of people I want to spend my time with.
I'm sorry, like Mark, I cannot comment on some of these posts since I don't paid attention once a thread starts to degrade, and there are just too many of them now. As a result, I tend to stay away for days on end, and I used to check this forum at least once every hour in the past. To be sure, I have a Christmas card to post on the thread you started for that purpose, but there are a couple of posts there, again, from people who are ashamed of who they are and left false names and addresses along with what I think are inapropreate posts. I don't need this and I see no need to continue if this trend doesn't go away.
This has been a friendly forum in the past where people cared about each other and one could get instant help with any problem, software related or not. If someone was upset with a product, a feature, a price or lack of service, it didn't take 150 posts to solve that problem. If someone had a personal problem, ten people jumped in to help. You know what I'm talking about.
I left another forum recently because of the juvinile responses. flaming and just trash talk, I'd hate to have to bow out here as well. I suppose that not too many people will care, I'm sure a bunch here don't even know who I am, that's not my fault, blame those that are srewing things up here.
I would have to be one of the last people to say that complaining about Serif software should not be allowed. I was probably the most vocal about PP7 and what I perceived as its shortcomings. But, instead of just issuing a blanket statement of PP, I tried to present exactly what was wrong with it and why it was wrong.
In all the years I've been involved with this forum and its forerunners, including CompuServe, I've never seen a serious question go unanswered, even if the answer was (I don't know how to help you." The only barbs I've seen posted are those aimed at trolls who anonymously post messages denigrating PP without offering any proof at all.
But for the time being, I really don't care. My some is home from his overseas tour a month early and we get to spend Christmas with him. He completely surprised us, as we didn't expect him until January 7. We've even been exchanging e-mails, counting down the days. Of course, he planned this and had his buddy been able to pick him up, would have walked into the house while we were watching TV, thus shocking me and Linda into cardiac arrest!
I know that. Remember, I was the one that told you that him putting the date and signature on the bottom panel didn't count, but you argued that was two differences. I guess you also forgot trying to claim a free pizza because you found seven (or as you claimed, nine) differences, when the free pizza was actually for identifying the mystery photo - which you have yet to do, in eight years!
Linda here. Mike is in shock, something about actually agreeing with you. He's convinced Peggy typed the reply. :-)
He says that's why he has hung around the forum and NG this long - that it's not just to help people, it's because of the people he has met. He talks about somebody named Karlos who is a Commie and only works a couple days a month, yet I know this guy has sent us all kinds of packages, including one of coins that my dughter took to school. I know he has talked with somebody named Richard from England and a guy named David from Australia, plus Mike from Columbus whose aunt send us pictures for the paper. I sometimes wonder why he spends time talking with you all instead of renovating the bedroom, but he seems to enjoy it. He claims, real seriously, that when he first started doing things for magazines, that a lot of people from the Internet helped him, and he feels a duty to help others. Plus, even now, he'll be moaning about a problem then he'll say it was solved from a posting on the Internet. I know quite frequently he gets really giddy from being able to solve a problem and send someone a file that works for them.
One thing, I do not understand this good twin/bad twin thing, he won't talk about it much. Something about things you did a long time ago. I've talked with Peggy, and she seems rally nice, not someone who would marry a cruel person. But I cannot say for sure - I've watched Law and Order.
I think all you guys who seem to have too much testosterone for your own good ought to have us wives take over. I use PP a bit and it seems easy. I'm not as good as Michael, I'm not as good as Kelsey. She sat down and started using PP to create posters, a brochure and even a website, and we didn't offer much help.
Anyway, Michael is coming to. I guess the shock of Shaun coming home and him agreeing with you was too much. Tell Peggy I said hello and maybe someday I can meet you both.
Great to hear the lad is coming home for the festive season - it must be a while since you saw him last as well so even more joy I guess. Many years ago my eldest brother - also my best friend - was in the Merchant Navy. I can still recall the sheer joys of him arriving home unannounced - especially if he had the standard issue of navy Rum in his kitbag
Hope you all have a wonderful Christmas of course!!!!!