PhotoPlus X5: PhotoPlus vs Photoshop

[The Crusty Clown]

I have been using Webplus, and well I like it.

I would like some input on comparing Photoplus to Photoshop with keeping the price out of it. Clearly I understand this is a Serif forum, but an honest comparison would be good. With playing around with friends Photoshop a while back, I personally found it over whelming.

Also, one thing I like about Photoshop though, is that there are many books in how to use the program in different lingos, is photoPlus in other languages as well?

Also, what in the Serif suite would you do relativity basic graphics with for websites? Also, what in the Serif suite do you make animated banners in?

Thanks chaps and chapetts

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I would create basic web graphics directly in WebPlus. For animations I would use DrawPlus. For anything else I would use IrfanView.

[bookmarkmns01]

I agree with Bhikkhu Pesala. I use DrawPlus for web graphics, and IrfanView for most of the rest. I find PhP's crop tool frustrating and it does not include the features I need - very frustrating for web work and for me rules out PhP..

I use a different photo editor, Paint Shop Pro, for adjusting images if IrfanView hasn't the tools I need. As all web image files are small and involve compromise, I find few benefits using PhotoShop.

Mark

[The Crusty Clown]

Can you set these Serif programs so the menus are in Asian Languages, or are they just English?

[Sick ofPC]

I for one, am unable to compare Photoplus to Photoshop, as I don't have photoshop, BUT

I am more than surprised that both Bhikkhu Pesala and bookmarkmns01 have failed to even say about PhotoPlus in this thread

IMHO, if they don't use these programs, they should stay out of this part of the forum

Yes I have also try'ed photoshop and also found it overwhelming and that is why I use PhotoPlus

Dave

[Sixwheels]

Might I suggest that you check out some Youtube tutorials, mine included, so that you can get a feel for PhotoPlus' capabilities? I've always said, and I still believe it to be true today, that anything that can be done in Photoshop can be done in PhotoPlus.

[The Crusty Clown]

I will on Monday when I am back in a 3G area follow up on U tube..

I personally want to use PhotoPlus and just buy it, I am being bombared almost daily by serif !!!! From what I have seen, it is massively easier to use than Photoshop.

But

I am working and living in Asia, I have staff for other projects that are great people and I would also want them to learn new skills so when I return home, they can help them selves, ok, a bit warm and fuzzy I know, BUT, there are heaps of Photoshop in the local lingo around here, and nothing for Photoplus, Nothing I tell you, even though I think it is much better suited.

I am trying to make life easy for me too !!!

[mjh]

Originally Posted by The Crusty Clown I will on Monday when I am back in a 3G area follow up on U tube.. I personally want to use PhotoPlus and just buy it, I am being bombared almost daily by serif !!!! From what I have seen, it is massively easier to use than Photoshop. But I am working and living in Asia, I have staff for other projects that are great people and I would also want them to learn new skills so when I return home, they can help them selves, ok, a bit warm and fuzzy I know, BUT, there are heaps of Photoshop in the local lingo around here, and nothing for Photoplus, Nothing I tell you, even though I think it is much better suited. I am trying to make life easy for me too !!!

You can try out the free version of PhotoPlus before you buy it

http://serif.com/FreeDownloads/

[Bill T]

Originally Posted by Sixwheels Might I suggest that you check out some Youtube tutorials, mine included, so that you can get a feel for PhotoPlus' capabilities? I've always said, and I still believe it to be true today, that anything that can be done in Photoshop can be done in PhotoPlus.

I believe the answer on this one is "it depends." If I were making a full-time living in the photo industry, I would have Photoshop — end of story. There are many brushes, actions and plug-in software that work with Photoshop alone. Yes, some of us have found ways to adapt Photoshop tutorials to PhP. James has been particularly creative in doing these adaptions. But you are trading time for money. If someone has created a brush in Photoshop, it will take you time to create it in PhP.

If you are working with a team, you will not be able to exchange any files with font layers, because the two software programs speak different languages. It does you no good to be able to duplicate effects, if you can't collaborate with your team. There are huge libraries of Actions for Photoshop that can't be run in PhP.

Photoshop is far more expensive of course — both initially and for upgrades. But in talking with my Photoshop friends, I get the impression that bugs in the software get fixed. In PhP, adding transparency to a layer requires typing the number in reverse order (e.g. typing 52 to get a 25% transparency) That exists in at least versions X2 thru X4 — don't know about before or since. In X4, typing a number in a curves layer box crashes the program. Over a year later that hasn't been fixed. There are other items like this, but these are glaring ones. I should not have to buy a new version to get these things fixed. And even then, I don't know if the new version fixes them.

Serif trades on the concept that you get to try the software and can return it if you don't like it. But to really evaluate a new version, you need to work with it a while. Doing that evaluation is time you are trading off for money. If you are seriously in the business, it's a tradeoff you may not want to accept. I have X4 on my desk only because it wasn't worth the trouble to pack it back up and get a refund.

Bill

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Originally Posted by Sick ofPC I am more than surprised that both Bhikkhu Pesala and bookmarkmns01 have failed to even say about PhotoPlus in this thread

Had you read the first post you would see that the question is specifically about creating Web Graphics, and for that I would not use or recommend any version of PhotoPlus though I have several versions.

We need more details about what kind of graphics are being created, and which Asian languages are used. Chinese and Korean are currently the only Asian interface languages available for IrfanView. Commercial users need to register so its not free, though registration is only US$ 12.00 for a single user.

[Sixwheels]

Originally Posted by Bhikkhu Pesala Had you read the first post you would see that the question is specifically about creating Web Graphics, and for that I would not use or recommend any version of PhotoPlus though I have several versions.

The question is, why? I've been using PhotoPlus for a long time now, and since it can produce virtually any kind of graphic, I see absolutely no reason why it can't be used to create web graphics. Please explain.

[The Crusty Clown]

The Asian lingo is Thai.

I really like Webplus, a while back when I tried the free version od Serif PhP on another machine,I could easily do what I wanted, but when a friend helped me out with Photoshop, I felt lost, when I spent a few hours "playing"around. I remember I felt it was not user friendly, to me anyway !!!!

I am talking pretty basic photo editing for my sites and making Headers and also banners.

If I can make it work, I would like to use the Serif suite, went to the local book store, there was 18 different Titles in Thai lingo for how to on Photoshop.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Originally Posted by Sixwheels The question is, why?... Please explain.

As you might expect, it depends on what type of graphics you're producing, and what your sources are. "Web Graphics" covers a wide range of images.

1. JPG — Most of these can be edited directly in WebPlus using PhotoLab or the Image context toolbar. YMMV as it depends on the image data, but in my tests I found that Image quality is better when exporting from IrfanView than from PhotoPlus, giving fewer artefacts at the same image size, or giving a smaller file size for similar image quality.
2. PNG — For these, file size is critical. PhotoPlus does not give the smallest file size. IrfanView with PNGOUT will (usually) give the smallest files, or FastStone products will also give excellent PNG compression. Example a capture of this message box: PhotoPlus X5 111 Kbytes, FastStone Capture 101 Kbytes, PNGCrush 98 Kbytes, PNGOUT from IrfanView (very slow) 100 Kbytes.
3. Animated GIF — PhotoPlus can open, edit, and export animated GIFs, but DrawPlus is more suitable for creating them.
4. Scans — For those who need to scan a lot of images, PhotoPlus only does one at a time. Its very inefficient. IrfanView does batch scanning.
5. Batch Operations — If working with large number of images, batch processing is ten times faster in IrfanView. If you forget to select an output folder in PhotoPlus you can easily destroy your originals. I strongly recommend avoiding PhotoPlus for all batch processing.
6. Resizing Images — IrfanView is much faster
7. Screen Capture — If you need to capture dialogues, toolbars, etc., then PhotoPlus is hopelessly inefficient. Use FastStone Capture or Alt PrintScreen and IrfanView.
8. Workflow — As far as possible, do all image processing directly in WebPlus. If you need to use brushes then PhotoPlus may be a better choice, but again DrawPlus offers a more flexible solution for producing logos since it uses vectors, and can export bitmaps at various sizes without loss of the original quality.

If you need to do extensive processing of RAW camera images then PhotoPlus may be the right choice for you, but IrfanView can also do a pretty good job of opening RAW images to resize them and save them as JPG for the web. With a typical 12 Mbyte RAW image:

IrfanView Open < 1 second, Resize 50% 1 second
PhotoPlus Open 8 seconds, Resize 50% 6 seconds

It also takes longer to select the 50% option in PhotoPlus.

So what is PhotoPlus good for? Painting with brushes, working with layers, creating fancy Banners? Its hopeless with text too, so again use WebPlus or DrawPlus if you are working with Text.

[Sixwheels]

So what you meant to say is that PhotoPlus is perfectly capable of creating web graphics, just not as well as other programs. ;-)

In my humble opinion, none of the programs you mention, except DrawPlus, allows the creation of sophisticated images like a quality image processing program. I think PhotoPlus is more capable of fine artistry in skilled hands. I mean let's face it, you can't make an image in irfanview at all. ‹shrug›

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Originally Posted by Sixwheels So what you meant to say is that PhotoPlus is perfectly capable of creating web graphics, just not as well as other programs. ;-)

No, that's not what I meant, and you know it.

[bookmarkmns01]

There are a couple of points I'd add.

PhotoPlus is a fine editor for Photos but it is not aimed for the production of pixel measured size-specific cropped images for the web. Over time there has been comment about the cropping tool but it is not re-designed for that yet. One day, perhaps, but not now.

The OP was to compare PhP and PhotoShop - agreed. But there are other options and "fair comment" is to point them out if it makes the job easier.

Mark.

[Archibald]

Originally Posted by Bhikkhu Pesala So what is PhotoPlus good for?

I use PhotoPlus for photo retouching, usually only using the clone tool. I used to use it for Lanczos image resampling for web images, but I think the resampling in WebPlus X5 is now good for all but the most demanding images. I find use of other tools such as burn normally produces blotchy results but perhaps I need more practice. The last image I needed to edit for a web page required a gradient change in brightness diagonally across it: I gave up trying to do it in PhotoPlus and did it quickly in DrawPlus. I may use PhotoPlus where feathering of a selection is needed.

I really dislike using PhotoPlus and use it only when I have to. Most of this dislike is probably just due to it being a pixel editing program, but I find the user interface challenging and annoying at times.

I prepare website graphics within WebPlus but would use DrawPlus where labelling of layers is helpful.

I do not attempt to do "fine art" but would turn to using the pressure-sensitive brushes in DrawPlus first rather than consider using PhotoPlus. Ken's elephant shows what can be done with DrawPlus . . . . . in the right hands.

[gerrycud]

Having used both programs myself... It is a case of "You get what you pay for". Photoshop (CS5, in my case)does do a superb job of editing. I dare say a better job than PhotoPlus in some cases. But you are paying $600 for Photoshop (I got it at a substantial student discount while going to college, but I'm limited to non-commercial usage of the program). PhotoPlus is only $89. I feel that the average amateur photographer will find PhotoPlus more than capable for what they want.

[Arun Sarkar]

Originally Posted by gerrycud It is a case of "You get what you pay for".

This is the perfect comment for PSD and PHP

But it really does not work for INDD Vs. PP
PP is not that far behind

[AlfredP]

Originally Posted by Sixwheels I mean let's face it, you can't make an image in irfanview at all.

Of course you can, Jim. Why did you think you couldn't?

Alfred