How do I change the middle position?

[atb]

Hello,
I'm using PP X4 and I've looked in the help file and here on the forum for the answer but had no luck.

I would like to move the middle position of my panoramas. Basically, so it starts with a different image of my choosing as the left most image of the stitched panorama.
Does that make sense?
How do I go about doing that?

I'm guessing it can be done within the software!
I'm also guessing there might be a work-around if I know how the software decides which is going to be the first image...
I have tried changing the file name to the order I would like them in (left to right).... not worked.
now I'm thinking the software might look at the date the photo was taken from the image information - the oldest photo (being the one taken first) left most.

any one have any ideas?

[Geoff Blanthorn]

Originally Posted by atb I would like to move the middle position of my panoramas. Basically, so it starts with a different image of my choosing as the left most image of the stitched panorama. Does that make sense?

No, not to me! Surely the images can only be stitched together as a panorama where a pair if them have sufficient overlap for the program to recognize that they are adjacent images. The leftmost, and rightmost images will not have other overlapping images to their left or right, respectively, so they cannot be placed in the middle.

Can you elucidate?

Geoff

[Lon in California]

Originally Posted by Geoff Blanthorn No, not to me! Surely the images can only be stitched together as a panorama where a pair if them have sufficient overlap for the program to recognize that they are adjacent images. The leftmost, and rightmost images will not have other overlapping images to their left or right, respectively, so they cannot be placed in the middle. Can you elucidate? Geoff

I would agree, Geoff. If the OP wants the series of photos, 1-2-3, to be stitched together as 2-1-3 (for instance), the images wouldn't even match up. If 2 is to be the left most image, then the sequence would have to be 2-3, or 2-3-4, with 1 left out entirely, IMO.



Lon in California

[atb]

Originally Posted by Geoff Blanthorn Can you elucidate?

I can...

3 images 1-2-3

I'm after the choice of 2-3-1 or 3-1-2 as well

I dont want to put the images out of order.... as that would make a bit of a rubbish panorama dont you think?


So how do I get the s/w to do it?

[alspar]

Originally Posted by atb I can... 3 images 1-2-3 I'm after the choice of 2-3-1 or 3-1-2 as well I dont want to put the images out of order.... as that would make a bit of a rubbish panorama dont you think? So how do I get the s/w to do it?

Your options imply that the three images complete a 360 degree panorama - hardly possible with just three images.

The program works by looking for the 20% plus overlap between images and puts them in the only order that works. If you took the photos right to left 1-2-3 it would stitch them left to right 3-2-1.

[Lon in California]

Originally Posted by atb I can... 3 images 1-2-3 I'm after the choice of 2-3-1 or 3-1-2 as well I dont want to put the images out of order.... as that would make a bit of a rubbish panorama dont you think? So how do I get the s/w to do it?

But, if you actually snapped your images 1-2-3, overlapping each one to make the panorama, then assembling the panorama as images 2-3-1 or 3-1-2 IS out of order. How would you possibly expect to take a sequence of images that make up a complete panorama (either left to right, or right to left) and put them in some other order that would still make sense?

No matter which order you took the pictures, PanoPlus puts them in the order that makes the panorama. If it can't find enough matching points, then it will inform you of that and will not make the pano. You can't force it to start with a particular image.


Lon "even more confuzzled" in California

[Geoff Blanthorn]

Originally Posted by atb I can... 3 images 1-2-3 I'm after the choice of 2-3-1 or 3-1-2 as well I dont want to put the images out of order.... as that would make a bit of a rubbish panorama dont you think? So how do I get the s/w to do it?

Unless image 1 and image 3 overlap by at least 20%, there is no way they can be stitched together in a panorama. And if image 2 overlaps both 1 and 3, it cannot be other than be the middle one.

Geoff

[AlfredP]

Originally Posted by alspar Your options imply that the three images complete a 360 degree panorama - hardly possible with just three images.

I suspect that the OP may have provided an oversimplified example, but if you had a 360° panorama comprising eight images you might well want them in the order 4-5-6-7-8-1-2-3. I think the only way to do this is to omit one or both of the 'end' images (numbers 3 and 4 in the above example) and stitch the remainder, and then stitch on the missing image/s as a separate operation.

Alfred

[alspar]

Originally Posted by AlfredP I suspect that the OP may have provided an oversimplified example, but if you had a 360° panorama comprising eight images you might well want them in the order 4-5-6-7-8-1-2-3. I think the only way to do this is to omit one or both of the 'end' images (numbers 3 and 4 in the above example) and stitch the remainder, and then stitch on the missing image/s as a separate operation. Alfred

Possibly, but if you leave out 4 then create panorama 5-6-7-8-1-2-3, if you then try to create a new panorama with 4 and the first panorama, what will the program do: shot 4 fits at both sides of the first panorama!

I will have to try this for myself.

[alspar]

Originally Posted by alspar Possibly, but if you leave out 4 then create panorama 5-6-7-8-1-2-3, if you then try to create a new panorama with 4 and the first panorama, what will the program do: shot 4 fits at both sides of the first panorama! I will have to try this for myself.

Update from program help - a 360 degree panorama can be produced as a Quicktime VR Video. How it works as a 2D photo, I don't yet know.

[atb]

Yes AlfredP thank you! I have oversimplified the example.... of course you would need more images to make up a 360˚.... I simplified it for those who are hard of thinking.

Now let me see if I can explain what I am trying to do so everyone understands.....

Say I’ve taken 7 images to make up a 360˚ panoramic image.
I’ve overlapped the images by at least 20%.
I don’t want to make a Quicktime VR Video – the image will be printed on to paper.
The image file name order goes 1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg 7.jpg and from here on in I will refer to the image files without their extension.
I get PP x4 to stitch the images together and the S/W put them in the order 1-2-3-4-5-6-7
But when I look at the stitched panoramic image I find its not aesthetically pleasing and I would like image 2 to be the middle image.
I would like the order to be 6-7-1-2-3-4-5
This still maintains the right image order so from left to right it spans 360˚

So my question is, how do I get PP X4 to make the middle image in the series the one I want it to be.

[ericlnz]

The only way I can think off is to crop (using photoPlus or any image editor) 20% off the left side of image 6, or off the right side of image 5. Then if PanoramaPlus cannot stitch 5 and 6 together it might do want you want.

Eric

[atb]

Thanks Eric, that’s an idea worth trying.

It would be interesting to know how PP x4 chooses where the middle is going to be on a 360˚ panoramic....
I don’t think it’s by file name order and I don’t think it’s chronological order (oldest leftmost)
Or it could be just be totally random!

If we did know it would then give us a chance to influence it.
I guess only the developers know for sure!

So can I request a new feature please.... after the images have been stitched together to be able to click on the image to make that point the middle (ok it might need re-stitching at that point!)
Thanks!!!!

[Geoff Blanthorn]

Originally Posted by ericlnz The only way I can think off is to crop (using photoPlus or any image editor) 20% off the left side of image 6, or off the right side of image 5. Then if PanoramaPlus cannot stitch 5 and 6 together it might do want you want. Eric

Eric,

That should work. It's a pity that we who are hard of thinking, or even the OP, couldn't come up with that. But then someone was a little hard of explaining the problem!

Geoff

[Lon in California]

Originally Posted by Geoff Blanthorn Eric, That should work. It's a pity that we who are hard of thinking, or even the OP, couldn't come up with that. But then someone was a little hard of explaining the problem! Geoff

Snap!

Lon in California

[AlfredP]

Originally Posted by alspar Possibly, but if you leave out 4 then create panorama 5-6-7-8-1-2-3, if you then try to create a new panorama with 4 and the first panorama, what will the program do: shot 4 fits at both sides of the first panorama!

Yes, that occurred to me just after I posted (late last night — or early this morning! — here) but in any case I think I would have done the final stitching manually, in PhotoPlus or IrfanView.

Originally Posted by ericlnz The only way I can think off is to crop (using photoPlus or any image editor) 20% off the left side of image 6, or off the right side of image 5. Then if PanoramaPlus cannot stitch 5 and 6 together it might do want you want.

I think that's the best way. If every image has a 20% overlap with its neighbour, the final image is going to have a repeated portion at the ends, so you might as well remove the extra bit before stitching rather than afterwards.

Alfred

[ericlnz]

Hopefully atb will let us know if it works. I don't have any 360 degree panos to try.

Eric

[Birder]

People need to understand this program is just a stitching program, it simply makes a stitched image. If you are printing the image, then simply cut it in Photoshop or PhotoPlus and put it back together. But if you want to use it in a tour its the viewer that controls where the panorama starts from

Panotour Pro or Pano2VR are both programs to make tours using Panoramas and both let you start where you want. Both have a demo.

PanoramaPlus is fine for stitching a few images but its no good if you have a lot of images.

I have just made a large panorama (360 x 180) and in Autopano it took 30 seconds to stitch 43 images and the results are perfect. For fun I just tried the same 43 images in PanoramaPlus and its been running 2 hours with that green bar flashing every few seconds.

[Birder]

2 hours a 31 minutes. It felt a lot longer as Liverpool FC scores twice while it finished.

After all that the results are poor with mis-aligned uprights.

PP x4 cost very little so what can you expect

[PhoebeAnn]

Originally Posted by atb So can I request a new feature please.... after the images have been stitched together to be able to click on the image to make that point the middle (ok it might need re-stitching at that point!) Thanks!!!!

Another hand up for requesting that feature. I have 16 images, all equally overlapped. I've tried Microsoft's ICE also. ICE doesn't have that feature either. ICE chose a different center point, but neither is the center I want, of course.

Going to try the manual cropping idea.

Update: Cropping the "end" images resulted in a really weird panorama, no longer a straight-line stitched set, but an upward (rainbow-like) arc of poorly-stiched images, with one hangy-down image on the left end. I couldn't figure out what happened there. ICE produced the same panorama as it had previously, but the damaged stitch was obvious.

Anothere update: Used Irfan View to manually shuffle things around. Ultimaately worked, greatly simplified by following excellent advice in the Irfan View support forum, but even "great;y simplified" is a pain in the neck. Wish Serif's support were as good as their advertising; just adding this feature alone would encourage me to buy a modestly priced version.