Go Back   Serif Software Forums > Design and Publishing > DrawPlus

Notices

DrawPlus Questions about using DrawPlus for vector graphics design

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24th May 2011, 08:04 PM   #41
stargazey
Advanced Member
 
stargazey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 601
stargazey is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaphyConcept View Post
And So.. When.....
WHEN THE UPDATE COME UP IN FRENCH VERSION OF THE DRAWPLUS X4 PROGRAM?
Don't worry - you don't need an update, you can just buy the next version. If that's still buggy, I'm sure a year or so later there will be another version. If that doesn't work properly, that's OK, Serif will rush out another version for you to buy. THIS time it MIGHT be OK.

Why should they bother to fix one version, when they can just sell you another one, with the promise that THIS time they've got it right.
stargazey is offline  
Old 25th May 2011, 10:24 AM   #42
Sarah W
Expert
 
Sarah W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 8,465
Sarah W is a splendid one to beholdSarah W is a splendid one to beholdSarah W is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by POC View Post
I don't want to be unduly critical, especially being new to these forums, and as I've only just received this software, and at a terrific upgrade price, but I was quite taken aback by your reply. I was sitting here, just mulling it over for a moment, trying to work out whether there was anything reasonable about it. I'm really not trying to be rude to you, honestly, but what you say is, well, just, sorry to say it, unfair and wrong. If a bug such as has been described above has been logged, and acknowledged, Serif surely has a duty to fix it before delivery a major version upgrade. It is unreasonable to expect people to pay for bug fixes. For improved features, yes. I have to confess at being a little shocked by this response.
Whether a fix is included into an update for an existing product or kept back for the next major release depends on two major factors: Risk and available resources.

Making any change to software code always involves a level of risk. With a product as large and complex as DrawPlus, changing even a small line of code can potentially have knock-on consequences throughout the product. If any given fix requires a large change and/or changes to code that is relied on heavily by important features then the risk of introducing that change is very high. Should the risk be perceived to be high, then it is safer to include the fix in the next major product cycle, because there will be a much more extensive testing cycle available to check that the fix is good.

Even if the fix should be considered safe enough to include in an update for the existing product version, releasing a new update requires a lot of production time. The software build has to be tested, both to check that the fixes are good and that the fixes have not introduced any regressions. A new CD install has to be built and tested. A new download install has to be built and tested. An install patch has to be built and tested. Should any of those fail, fixes have to be implemented, rebuilds have to be made and re-testing has to be undergone. The schedule for the Production department is often booked up weeks or months in advance, so fitting in all that work is no small consideration.

In an ideal world we'd like to supply all available fixes to customers, but unfortunately there are real-world reasons why that is not always possible.

I hope that helps explain Serif's point of view and reassures you that providing fixes (or not) isn't taken lightly.
Sarah W is offline  
Old 25th May 2011, 10:27 AM   #43
Sarah W
Expert
 
Sarah W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 8,465
Sarah W is a splendid one to beholdSarah W is a splendid one to beholdSarah W is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaphyConcept View Post
And So.. When.....
WHEN THE UPDATE COME UP IN FRENCH VERSION OF THE DRAWPLUS X4 PROGRAM?
We will be delivering the patch to Micro Application very soon, so it will be available to you once they have put it up on their site.
Sarah W is offline  
Old 25th May 2011, 04:42 PM   #44
SaphyConcept
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: France
Posts: 218
SaphyConcept is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah W View Post
We will be delivering the patch to Micro Application very soon, so it will be available to you once they have put it up on their site.
I heard that previously (it may be past 2 months ago).. So.. I hope this time is the absolute truth.

Just as it: Serif provide some very interesting software, but when we have the obligation to patch the software because it is affected by a c*r*a*p bug AND when we don't had any French patch instead the English version which had already far away the patch.. This can seriously and really make angry.

That is why i was cannot keep my calm...
SaphyConcept is offline  
Old 25th May 2011, 05:37 PM   #45
stargazey
Advanced Member
 
stargazey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 601
stargazey is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

"In an ideal world we'd like to supply all available fixes to customers, but unfortunately there are real-world reasons why that is not always possible."

Dare I say that "the real world reasons" seem to me to be that Serif puts profits above customer satisfaction. If they took a bit longer getting it right BEFORE releasing new versions, maybe there wouldn't be so many bugs in them! As had been said several times, it's one thing for customers to pay for a new version to get new features etc, but why should they have to pay again just to get a program that works properley? If I buy a new car and the windscreen wipers don't work, I don't expect to be told to wait for the next model and buy another one!
stargazey is offline  
Old 25th May 2011, 05:50 PM   #46
Foxy
Advanced Member
 
Foxy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jo'burg - RSA
Posts: 777
Foxy is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazey View Post
If I buy a new car and the windscreen wipers don't work, I don't expect to be told to wait for the next model and buy another one!
Aye!
Foxy is offline  
Old 25th May 2011, 08:51 PM   #47
RichardS
Master
 
RichardS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nr Hitchin, UK
Posts: 19,746
RichardS has a brilliant futureRichardS has a brilliant futureRichardS has a brilliant futureRichardS has a brilliant future
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazey View Post
If I buy a new car and the windscreen wipers don't work, I don't expect to be told to wait for the next model and buy another one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy View Post
Aye!
Perhaps the car example is not that helpful, especially as cars now have software faults: eg. ABS brakes which don't work properly on bumpy roads.

I had one car which got a puncture after a couple of years. When I lifted out the spare wheel, it was for a completely different car.
__________________
64-bit Win10 Pro 1703, i5-2320, 8GB RAM, HD2000 Graphics.
32-bit Win10 Pro 1607, AMD64 3200+, 2GB RAM, Bodged ATI Video & AC97 Audio drivers.
32-bit WinXP Home, AMD64 3200+, 2GB RAM, 256MB ATI Radeon Xpress 200 Graphics.
32-bit Win10 Pro 14946, AMD64 3200+, 2GB RAM, Bodged ATI Video & AC97 Audio drivers.
64-bit (3GB) & 32-bit (2GB) Win10 Pro 16170, on VirtualBox, 2 CPU cores, 128MB video
RichardS is offline  
Old 26th May 2011, 12:19 PM   #48
SaphyConcept
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: France
Posts: 218
SaphyConcept is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazey View Post
"In an ideal world we'd like to supply all available fixes to customers, but unfortunately there are real-world reasons why that is not always possible."

Dare I say that "the real world reasons" seem to me to be that Serif puts profits above customer satisfaction. If they took a bit longer getting it right BEFORE releasing new versions, maybe there wouldn't be so many bugs in them! As had been said several times, it's one thing for customers to pay for a new version to get new features etc, but why should they have to pay again just to get a program that works properley? If I buy a new car and the windscreen wipers don't work, I don't expect to be told to wait for the next model and buy another one!
totally agree with that, I think to sell a version of a buggy product and then say, for bugs .. they will be corrected in a later (and new) at your expense is a little "take people for wallets on legs" ...

Have to change your vision of "updates" Serif, because there you will lose a lot of clients who turn to other solutions .. AND competitors likely will have a free hand ..

But if that's what you want, after all ...
SaphyConcept is offline  
Old 26th May 2011, 01:46 PM   #49
stargazey
Advanced Member
 
stargazey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 601
stargazey is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaphyConcept View Post
Have to change your vision of "updates" Serif, because there you will lose a lot of clients who turn to other solutions .. AND competitors likely will have a free hand ..

But if that's what you want, after all ...
I had been intending to update my other Serif products, but after my experience with DPX4, and reading of other peoples problems (a recent thread in WP, for example,) I'm now seriously looking at open source replacements intead!
stargazey is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 04:58 AM   #50
Clayton
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2
Clayton is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Did the upgrade, now being asked to put in a reg key, but the one that I recieved in the email does not work. Any suggestions?
Clayton is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 05:13 AM   #51
ericlnz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Aotearoa
Posts: 4,718
ericlnz is just really niceericlnz is just really nice
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
Did the upgrade, now being asked to put in a reg key, but the one that I recieved in the email does not work.
Reg Key or Product Key? The optional Reg Key would have come in an email but the Product Key would have been on your original invoice and found on your Serif account page.

Eric
ericlnz is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 05:18 AM   #52
Clayton
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2
Clayton is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

the reg key, after rooting around the site and finally finding a link to register I solved the problem.
Clayton is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 11:18 PM   #53
Geoff Blanthorn
Expert
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lakebay, Washington
Posts: 6,452
Geoff Blanthorn is a splendid one to beholdGeoff Blanthorn is a splendid one to beholdGeoff Blanthorn is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazey View Post
I had been intending to update my other Serif products, but after my experience with DPX4, and reading of other peoples problems (a recent thread in WP, for example,) I'm now seriously looking at open source replacements intead!
You and others seem to be making a lot of fuss over this "bug", which seems to have a very simple workaround: to quote Sarah, "In X4 you can work around this by zooming or resizing the window very slightly after using the erase touch-up tool."

I have never needed to use this feature, so maybe this workaround doesn't work or is too difficult. But on the face of it, it seems like a very minor difficulty. Would you not have bought the program had this feature not been included at all?

Geoff
Geoff Blanthorn is offline  
Old 28th May 2011, 12:41 AM   #54
copprtop99
Member
 
copprtop99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Jose, CA USA area
Posts: 32
copprtop99 is on a distinguished road
Default Inkscape

I have to admit, I own DPX4 and Adobe Illustrator, but I find Inkscape (free) to be quite an excellent piece of software that saves files in SVG format.
__________________
Life is too short to do all you want
But too long not to try.
copprtop99 is offline  
Old 30th May 2011, 03:14 PM   #55
SaphyConcept
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: France
Posts: 218
SaphyConcept is on a distinguished road
Angry Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Blanthorn View Post
You and others seem to be making a lot of fuss over this "bug", which seems to have a very simple workaround: to quote Sarah, "In X4 you can work around this by zooming or resizing the window very slightly after using the erase touch-up tool."

I have never needed to use this feature, so maybe this workaround doesn't work or is too difficult. But on the face of it, it seems like a very minor difficulty. Would you not have bought the program had this feature not been included at all?

Geoff
And you find this no-fixed bug like that is normal?

So, anyway, in my case if i make 'fuss' as you've said, it's just because i don't have for the moment ANY UPDATES (including the 11.0.3) for my French version of the DrawPlus X4 software.)

This.. is really annoying, and make me really angry..

And if i must waiting SO LONG TIME at each updates (which for the moment never come up)... My choices will be ported on other software developper.. And this is sad because i like really Serif's products.

But, let's say: The DrawPlus X4 (and PhotoPlus X4 (but it's an another story) are really buggy .. This is make them unuseable in most of cases instead OpenSource software which have zero-day updates.

So...
SaphyConcept is offline  
Old 30th May 2011, 06:56 PM   #56
Geoff Blanthorn
Expert
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lakebay, Washington
Posts: 6,452
Geoff Blanthorn is a splendid one to beholdGeoff Blanthorn is a splendid one to beholdGeoff Blanthorn is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaphyConcept View Post
And you find this no-fixed bug like that is normal?

So, anyway, in my case if i make 'fuss' as you've said, it's just because i don't have for the moment ANY UPDATES (including the 11.0.3) for my French version of the DrawPlus X4 software.)

This.. is really annoying, and make me really angry..

And if i must waiting SO LONG TIME at each updates (which for the moment never come up)... My choices will be ported on other software developper.. And this is sad because i like really Serif's products.

But, let's say: The DrawPlus X4 (and PhotoPlus X4 (but it's an another story) are really buggy .. This is make them unuseable in most of cases instead OpenSource software which have zero-day updates.

So...
Saphy,

I haven't seen you complaining about this "bug" so my comments were not aimed at you. Yours is an entirely different complaint, and I can see why you are frustrated. One cure would be to make everyone wait for an update until it had been thoroughly tested for all language versions, which would seem somewhat unfair on those using the English version. I don't think releasing a patch for the English version causes any additional delay in getting out French or German patches. Serif is a British company, so it is not unreasonable for them to work initially on the English versions.

Unless you change to software from a French company you are unlikely to see French updates ahead of those in other languages.

I imagine there is a French version of the saying, "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face."

To answer your question, I do not think it unreasonable for the developers to spend there time on the next version of the software, and not holding things up for what seems to be a very minor issue, experienced by very few users, and which has a simple and quick (2 mouse clicks) workaround.

Geoff
Geoff Blanthorn is offline  
Old 31st May 2011, 07:51 AM   #57
stargazey
Advanced Member
 
stargazey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 601
stargazey is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Blanthorn View Post
You and others seem to be making a lot of fuss over this "bug", which seems to have a very simple workaround: to quote Sarah, "In X4 you can work around this by zooming or resizing the window very slightly after using the erase touch-up tool."

I have never needed to use this feature, so maybe this workaround doesn't work or is too difficult. But on the face of it, it seems like a very minor difficulty. Would you not have bought the program had this feature not been included at all?

Geoff
The Cut Out Studio was one of the main reasons why I decided to upgrade. It's a feature that I (would like) to use quite often. Not being able to see the results of "fine tuning" the image without continually zooming in and out is irritating (to put it mildly). It's a feature that works in other programs, so what is the problem getting it to work properly in DP?
(Just for the record, I actually pointed out this "workaround" myself in an earlier post!)
I've also never been able to get the "Export Preview" to work (despite over an hour on the phone to Tech Support and several emails).
I've been using Serif software for quite a number of years, generally I still like it, but it does seem to me that now-a-days they are too quick to bring out new versions of progs, which are too "buggy". That would not be a problem if they then fixed those bugs, rather than expecting customers to buy every new version! People keep saying that Serif is cheap - but that should not mean that it is also shoddy. I use four Serif progs and cannot afford to update them all every time Serif bring out a new version of every program, especially if I don't actually want any new features, - I just want the existing ones to work properly. In the long run it would be cheaper to buy better software that works properly and I can continue to use for a long time, rather than keep paying out regularly for new versions of cheaper software, in the hope that one day it will work properly!
IMHO it's getting to a point were the amount of time spent trying to find workarounds for things that should just work is no longer worth the effort!
The bottom line is - if I buy something and it doesn't work properly I believe that it should be fixed! I shouldn't just be told, "hard luck, buy another one."
stargazey is offline  
Old 31st May 2011, 10:09 AM   #58
SaphyConcept
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: France
Posts: 218
SaphyConcept is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Well.. Geoff,

If I bought Serif DrawPlus X4, it is partly because there is no alternative in French as interesting quality / price ratio, but also because after testing various software either in demo or light version I have not yet found more intuitive than DrawPlus X4.

Inkscape is great, but not intuitive for Windows users (and I'm a Windows user).

DrawPlus X4 and Inkscape can complement each other.

But .. That is not the issue.

The problem is that I when I buy software in French version developed in England (or America), I do not have to wait almost 6 months to get even just a 15Mb mini-patch.

This unfortunately happens with Serif DrawPlus X4 at this time.

And even for a British company, this is disappointing, and I strongly hope that in future Serif change his view of export their products to Europe.

For it is easy to say "Serif Europe Ltd." and finally to eventually forget buyers from other countries.

There Serif drives the point in me repeating the same stuff constantly: "Soon" .. So soon is good .. But it'll still more than three months that you English / Americans had access to the update ... AND we, French, nothing but rhetoric.

So .. Ok I'm willing to wait "Soon", but soon it will be for when DrawPlus X5 will be released?

Shame!
SaphyConcept is offline  
Old 6th June 2011, 05:35 PM   #59
Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Limited
 
Patrick Connor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Serif Nottingham
Posts: 3,460
Patrick Connor has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Connor has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Connor has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Connor has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Connor has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

The MicroApplications French release of DrawPlus X4 11.0.3 patch is now live on "check for updates" option.

If your software is not 11.0.3 and "check for updates" says you have the latest version please let me know what "Help>About DrawPlus" says your software version/build is please.
__________________
Patrick Connor
Head of Software Testing
Serif (Europe) Ltd.
Patrick Connor is offline  
Old 6th June 2011, 11:03 PM   #60
SaphyConcept
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: France
Posts: 218
SaphyConcept is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Update announcement (11.0.3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Connor View Post
The MicroApplications French release of DrawPlus X4 11.0.3 patch is now live on "check for updates" option.

If your software is not 11.0.3 and "check for updates" says you have the latest version please let me know what "Help>About DrawPlus" says your software version/build is please.
OH YES !! YES YES!!

Finally! You release it! OW MY GOD!

So, here is a screenshot (since you've asked for it).

Patch:


While:


After:



EDIT: I'm happy you've resolved the Outline BUG on SVG documents !!! YAY!

Last edited by SaphyConcept; 6th June 2011 at 11:18 PM.
SaphyConcept is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PagePlus X5: Update Announcement (15.0.2) Patrick Connor PagePlus 37 9th July 2011 11:44 AM
WebPlus X2: X2 Update Announcement (11.0.10) Patrick Connor WebPlus 34 2nd June 2011 10:16 AM
PagePlus X4: Update Announcement (14.0.5) Patrick Connor PagePlus 46 24th February 2011 11:11 AM
PhotoPlus X4: Update announcement (14.0.2) Patrick Connor PhotoPlus 21 14th February 2011 09:03 PM
PagePlus X5: Update Announcement (15.0.1) Patrick Connor PagePlus 0 9th December 2010 04:12 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:23 AM.